Keeping the Grove as the home track????

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racedawhile	Keeping the Grove as the home track????	Lead	[-]
Posts: 4 (06/03/09 12:01:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Tags : None After watching a lot of races over the years at Williams Grove, I must say that the sportsman races are the most boring that I have ever seen. If the supersportsmans are going to continue to keep the grove as the home track has anyone ever thought of opening up some rules (mainly engine) so there might actually be a pass in a 20 lap feature? Kind of hard to get fans in the stands to, what is like, watching grass grow. As much as I understand the money issues there needs to be some cars faster than others to make for a good show. Thoughts???????
22WILDCHILD		#1	[-]
Posts: 142 (06/03/09 17:22:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I DON'T THINK RULE CHANGES ARE GOING TO MAGICALLY MAKE EVERYTHING BETTER. FIRST OF ALL, YOU START CHANGING ENGINE RULES TO GET MORE SPEED, YOU ARE GOING TO HURT A LOT OF DRIVERS. (YOU MUST REMEMBER WE ARE MUCH HEAVIER THEN EVERY OTHER OPEN WHEEL CLASS.) SECOND, I DON'T THINK THE SPEED IS AN ISSUE, AS MUCH AS THE AMOUNT OF PASSING. THIS CLASS IS *BY FAR THE MOST COMPETITIVE CLASS* ANYWHERE IN PA. YOU CAN WIN ONE WEEK, AND NOT QUALIFY THE NEXT. IN MY OPINION WE NEED A TRACK TO BE RACY ENOUGH TO PASS ON. THIS PAST WEEK WAS HORRIBLE. THERE WHERE SEVERAL CARS THAT WHERE FAST. BUT SPENT MOST OF THE FEATURE FALLOWING THE GUY IN FRONT OF HIM, BECAUSE THE BOTTOM WAS THE ONLY PART OF THE TRACK YOU COULD DRIVE ON. THE RUN IN TRUCKS WHERE MAKING DUST FOR GODS SAKE!!!!!!!!!!! *THE FIRST TWO THINGS THAT NEED TO CHANGE ARE TRACK CONDITIONS AND GO 25 LAPS!!!!!!!!* IT DOESNT GET BETTER THAN THIS!! "If it came from me you can pretty much bank that it's the truth." - KGSkins
SoLo92s10		#2	[-]
Posts: 135 (06/03/09 17:54:04) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	i agree with 22wildchild 100% Bigler Racing #93 Carmen Perigo jr. 2009 Stats Top 5's: (5) (5th, 4th, 3rd, 5th, 4th) Top 10's: (2) (7th, 7th) Top 15's: (1) (11th) 16 - 24: (1) (23rd blown engine) Currently 1st in points
flip119		#3	[-]
Posts: 37 (06/03/09 18:17:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Changing the rules is not going to cure the problem. Once one guy gets something bigger, better, faster, it's only a matter of time before everyone else has it just to keep up. It will only cost teams more money and keep more cars at home on Saturday's. This is not a knock on Williams Grove, so don't get bent out of shape: Since we've gone to the Grove, what we've got here is a slower version of sprint car racing. Locked down and often follow the leader racing. Anybody who's ever seen these cars run on a track size better suited to the sportsman would agree that this is certainly one of the most competitive classes in the area. I am thankful that the Grove stepped up and gave us a place to race. I only hope we get better track conditions in the future.
fanatic		#4	[-]
Posts: 770 (06/03/09 19:58:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I agree the sportsman seem too locked down. More motor will put guys out of this blue collar divison. Maybe a change in side boards on the wings to loosen the cars up would produce better racing. There seemed to be lots of passing in the heats.
KGSkins		#5	[-]
Posts: 578 (06/03/09 20:11:24) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	This is my opinion and my opinion alone!!! The track size? NOT A FACTOR....... If you was a Bedford you would know why. The track surface SUCKS and it won't get much better. All they do friday night after the races is BLADE the top of the track. But no when the WoO is in for a today show they blade the track and dig it up about a foot deep. If the Williams Grove front office and everyone else that makes up these races think it's great racing then they also need to wake up. The Clay SUCKS the worst I've ever seen. I remember when we had a up coming race at Port Royal years ago and be like "Ah man follow the leader around the bottom as the track takes rubber" Well Williams Grove is no better now..... As much as I hate that place over at Trail-Ways.....They had a better racing surface for us and they even raced the Night before also. I think they seriously need to start looking at other tracks.....Head out to Grandview...hell if I have I will contact Bob Miller myself. And up to Big Diamond for some races... I watched the feature from the stands saturday night and I was like watching my grandmother paint a room.........."BORING" In fact all the races have been that way this year. Someone get your stats out and tell me which driver came the deepest in the field to win a race this year? Yes the cars are pretty close cause this class if tough NO DOULT! But for there to be NO passing is totally isn't worth the time teams put in. Hell why not just run heat races figure out the line up for the feature and just pay the guys like that. Save them wear and tear on the cars. Cause that is pretty much what happens. Duaine Smith put on a pair of new tires for Saturday Night and both was bold.... WoW!!!! If I was a car owner looking to get into this class....That's not a good thing to see. Look I know the Silver Spring days are gone. But in my opinion I don't think we've been treated fairly. Yes we have a place to race. And if we wasn't at Williams Grove do you really think 35 cars would just sit around with nobody else racing us? But anyhow Yes.... we have a place to race. And yes each team out there has stepped up to the plate spent alittle more money on the cars and engine for these bigger tracks...... So what has the tracks done for us? NOTHING.... Throw alittle water on it and say there you go boys with they're hand out. I don't want to hear it I seriously don't Williams Grove can and could alot better job with the track then what they do for us. If any of you have been to a 2 day WoO show you'll know what I'm talking about. First night track is great and slick. Then come night two the track doesn't rubber up/hurt tires until maybe a few laps into the feature or have way. Screw having Williams Grove as our home track......I'd be much happier traveling to the 9 tracks that we can. And if such deal was setup. I would like to see it to where we raced for out $1350 to win with the normal pay out. Now as for the tracks making they're money...... Hey if we're going to Grandview or Big Diamond or any other track and they are gonna pay our normal pay. I have no problem spending $25,$30 to get into the pits if it makes that much of a different. As for tow money that WE DON'T GET AT OTHER TRACKS. I would seek sponsership some how some way.... If we go out to Grandview or Big Diamond and if we have 6 car's that don't make it I'm sure we could find some sort of sponser to do it for a race or something....... Just make all the car's run a small sticker on they're car. What so hard about that.If you get Bob Builders to sponser $500.00 your good for at least 20 guys for tow money. Thats at least 3 or 4 races depending on the amount of cars. Sorry folks but this has been eating at me for awhile. I sit back and watch this all. And I talk to many of you in person and many different teams and owners. And everyone saids the same damn thing. If I knew Todd Fisher would I'd go to him and try to put his friday night program back together. He had a great thing there and screwed it up. And don't think for one second if that would open up again people wouldn't make the leap. Ok I'm off my soap for now....... So crack a bottle, let your body waddle Don't act like a snobby model you just hit the lotto O-oh o-oh, bitch's hopping in my Tahoe Got one riding shotgun and no not one of them got clothes Now where's the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers? I noticed there's so many of them and there's really not that many of us. Ladies love us, my posse's kicking up dust. It's on till the break of dawn and we're starting this party from dusk *Eminem~*
Lincoln Highway Bullitt		#6	[-]
Posts: 5 (06/03/09 23:56:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Can't blame the surface. Did you watch the Late Models? They put on the best show of the evening. Couple of suggestions. Take the WINGS OFF. Air Preasure rule for Right Rear 20psi. That will put the driver back into it and it is free. Well it will cost the track the price of an air gauge to police the cars after the race. http://www.youtube.com/user/kinagrannis
Open Wheel93		#7	[-]
Posts: 1041 (06/04/09 10:13:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	As much as I hate that place over at Trail-Ways.....They had a better racing surface for us and they even raced the Night before also. I agree that the track was terrible on Saturday night.....from what I heard, they filled in the Friday night ruts and put a little water on it.........BUT......to say that Trailways had a better track? At least I could see the cars at the Grove! I say DROP Trailways, add more at Lincoln, add more at Bedford and Path Valley. "I love going to Silver Springs and watching the sportsman. The cars weigh 1900 pounds, or there abouts. They got small wings, manual steering and its the best show." ....Lynn Paxton
KGSkins		#8	[-]
Posts: 579 (06/04/09 10:32:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Open Wheel....... I can tell you this for fact our days at Lincoln are becoming short lived. They are having less and less interest of having us over there. Our car count isn't much to brag about over there. When talking to people I know over there I told them I projected close to 40-45 car's showing up over there........ HA! Wasn't even close. They have been disapointed with the turn out. And for what they pay us in pay Vs. what they could bring other classes for and pay them. I could see us loosing out in the furture. I can asure you WE WILL NOT GET ANYMORE RACES THERE THEN WE HAVE NOW! We only have 3 races and the 100 lapper over there. And if it wouldn't be for the 100 lapper We might only of ever had 2 races over there a year. The whole Bedford deal will be tough. They run Friday Nights, How many of you are going to travel 2 plus hours from Harrisburg to go race Friday Night? Not everybody can do it. I would love to think we could. But it's going to be very very tough. But hey I'm game for a Friday Night show there and catching a Saturday Night show at Port Royal or Hagerstown. Or come back to Path Valley...... So crack a bottle, let your body waddle Don't act like a snobby model you just hit the lotto O-oh o-oh, bitch's hopping in my Tahoe Got one riding shotgun and no not one of them got clothes Now where's the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers? I noticed there's so many of them and there's really not that many of us. Ladies love us, my posse's kicking up dust. It's on till the break of dawn and we're starting this party from dusk *Eminem~*
racedawhile		#9	[-]
Posts: 5 (06/04/09 12:34:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	WOW!!! I must have hit a nerve somewhere! I mentioned the engine rule as a suggestion but here are the facts my friends: Self preservation-If something doesn't change in the near future the rules won't matter because the sportsman class will not exist. How many tracks are beating down the doors of the SS to get them in for a show? Money-We all know it takes money to race and some people have more than othersand that is just the way it is Competion-Having teams that are better than others, have more money, etc gives the fans a good show and gives the guys just coming in something to strive for. Track conditions-When was the last time you saw an actual cushion at WG on a saturday night? I hate to tell everyone that this is NOT an accident. The only division that wants a wet and tacky track is the SS. The late models and others don't like a track like that. The people that prepare the track for a saturday night show cater the track to those guys so they keep coming back. They know without them that there will be no saturday night show due to money. Fanatic- There was passing in the heats because there was somewhat of a bite on the track and 2 lanes to run. KGSkins-Two words my friend-Spell Check Open Wheel 93-Sounds like the division needs a promoter and to become a traveling show. Lincoln Highway Bulli-No wing and 20PSI in the right rear? Whos going to pay for the funerals? 22WildChild-Without speed differences you cannot have passing-unless you can change the laws of physics. The reason I put this topic up there was because I think that the supersportsman class is a great division and if something doesn't change and soon no track will run them on a weekly basis. If fans are not showing up then sponsors start to pull out (I think you are already seeing that happen), cars start not showing up due to money (that is happening to), and round the toilet bowl you go! When was the last time there were 55 cars at the track like there used to be at the springs? You heard it here first-this division will end up as a part time support class somewhere else if you don't put the racing and excitement back into it. Keep this topic going and I think you may see a few good suggestions come out of it.
KGSkins		#10	[-]
Posts: 583 (06/04/09 13:08:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	If that's all you got son you should take up rock throwing at a lake And your not going to see 55 cars with NO PASSING when it is FOLLOW THE LEADER So crack a bottle, let your body waddle Don't act like a snobby model you just hit the lotto O-oh o-oh, bitch's hopping in my Tahoe Got one riding shotgun and no not one of them got clothes Now where's the rubbers? Whose got the rubbers? I noticed there's so many of them and there's really not that many of us. Ladies love us, my posse's kicking up dust. It's on till the break of dawn and we're starting this party from dusk *Eminem~*
someone who knows	maybe	#11	[-]
Posts: 315 (06/04/09 13:37:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Hey i heard thru the grapevine over the weekend they were told that if we get enough cars to go back to suskie todd would like to have us back there..there would be changes for the good..and maybe then you would see some good racing like we had at the springs... just a thought..
Open Wheel93		#12	[-]
Posts: 1044 (06/04/09 14:09:43) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I'd sure have trouble trusting him. "I love going to Silver Springs and watching the sportsman. The cars weigh 1900 pounds, or there abouts. They got small wings, manual steering and its the best show." ....Lynn Paxton
22WILDCHILD		#13	[-]
Posts: 143 (06/04/09 16:29:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	FIRST OFF SOMEONE WHO KNOWS YOUR GRAPEVINE IS BUSTED!!!!!!!!!!! *I ASSURE YOU* FISHER HAS *NO INTEREST* WHAT SO EVER IN THE SPORTSMAN. SO LETS NOT EVEN BRING THAT UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SECOND RACEDAWHILE YOU MUST NOT HAVE READ MY ENTIRE POST. THERE ARE CARS THAT ARE FAST. BUT IF YOU GET OUT OF THE GROVE (WITH THE TRACK CONDITIONS WE HAVE HAD) YOU GET FREIGHT TRAINED. YOU MUST BE A DIE HARD 410 FAN FROM THE WG MESSAGE BOARD THE THINKS SPEED = BETTER RACING!! AS FAR AS CAR COUNTS GO.....AND THIS IS JUST MY OBSERVATION MAYBE BMOTB CAN VERIFY THIS. WE HAVE NOT SEEN 50 CARS IN THE PIT AREA SINCE 2 OR 3 YEARS BEFORE THE SPRINGS SHUT DOWN!! YES THE FIRST YEAR AT THE GROVE WAS BAD BUT I THINK SINCE THEN, THEY HAVE BEEN ON A STEADY CLIMB UP!!!!! I KNOW THE JERSEY GUYS HELPED THIS YEAR, BUT I STILL THINK THEY ARE UP. AND THE ATTENDANCE IN THE STANDS HAS ALSO BEEN GROWING!!!!!!! IT DOESNT GET BETTER THAN THIS!! "If it came from me you can pretty much bank that it's the truth." - KGSkins
someone who knows		#14	[-]
Posts: 316 (06/04/09 20:49:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	you dont have to be so smart.. i just stated a comment to what i heard.!sorry that i busted your grapevine..
bmotb		#15	[-]
Posts: 1018 (06/04/09 21:02:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Fan count and car count is up this year! Track was, well lets say a little lackluster last week. Racing will never be what the Springs was and in my opinion other than last saturday it has been pretty good! The late models have been really racey on our ultra smooth surface! I have said all along we need to race the Grove every available saturday night! Weather looks real good for saturday so remember if we get 36 cars or more we will again put 26 cars in the feature! Weather looks bad for friday so we might have an awesome track surface saturday! I seen post on the Grove board from people who have been giving the saturday series a try and have really liked it! Your Signature ...
KIMMIEE	track	#16	[-]
Posts: 622 (06/05/09 09:09:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I must disagree with you on part of this one Mikey. The night the 358 sprints were at the Grove for the Saturday show the track surface was terrible. There was not one 358 that came in after the feature who's tires were not completely smooth the whole way across. I can not say for all the sportsman that night, but the dozen or so sportsman drivers I talked to said the same about their tires as well. I agree on having a home track and to not have as many tour races as we do. But that is Pinky or Justins call and I don't think they care enough about us to ever give our saturday divisions that. They can't or won't even give us any decent advertising. I hear ad's on WTPA 93.5 ALL the time for the Friday shows and not even a passing comment about Saturdays. Ad's in the paper for Friday and very little about Saturdays. I am glad we have the Grove to run at but I am very upset that they make it so very clear that we don't really matter. How can you get fan count up if you don't tell fans we are there. I wish there was a way to self advertise us more but what can we do? Maybe that is the ticket to start promoting ourselves and find a way to get the word out that we are there. Hey OW, maybe we need to find a way to start collecting money to advertise our divisions in the paper ourselves. If we get enough we could take out a large ad and see if it helps. Just a thought!!!!! If we as fans, crews and people involved in the divisions take a stand maybe we could really make some change to help ourselves out here. What if the drivers went to Justin and Pinky and told them what they want or would like rather than us just posting it on the board? Maybe this is the chance to make the changes we need rather than just talk or say SOMEONE else should do it. We could do something positive to create change if we really wanted to!!!!!!! How about a driver out front or with the car in the infield every week before the races? Interviews with the drivers in the programs and such to get us noticed some more. What does everyone think? I am more than willing to try and put this together if you all are interested or want to do it. Maybe coming from people other than Mikey (since you are an employee) it might make them at least try to make Saturdays better for our divisions.
racedawhile		#17	[-]
Posts: 6 (06/05/09 12:50:08) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	KGSkins-Wasn't throwing rocks I just couldn't disagree with what you said. Kimmiee-I like the way you are thinking and this is the reaction that I was hoping to see when I posted this topic. I think you will find the only problem with promoting the saturday night series is that may take away from the grove's bread and butter-friday nights- and they are not going to chance that. I think there are only 2 ways this will play out in the future: 1) The SS find a track that will run them as the headliner and doesn't have another show night besides theirs 2) The SS will become a support class that runs with the sprints somewhere I fear the option 2 will be the answer at the end of the day although organized support divisions don't work around here (anyone remember the KARS series). Everything that people are complaining about with the SS at the grove on staurday nights sounds like the KARS guys when they were running at Susquehanna with the modifieds because nobody else wanted to pay to have them (i.e. track conditions, fan turnout, passing, etc.)
Sandy		#18	[-]
Posts: 8 (06/07/09 00:59:18) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	bmotb wrote: Fan count and car count is up this year! Track was, well lets say a little lackluster last week. Racing will never be what the Springs was and in my opinion other than last Saturday it has been pretty good! The late models have been really race on our ultra smooth surface! I have said all along we need to race the Grove every available Saturday night! Weather looks real good for Saturday so remember if we get 36 cars or more we will again put 26 cars in the feature! Weather looks bad for Friday so we might have an awesome track surface Saturday! I seen post on the Grove board from people who have been giving the Saturday series a try and have really liked it! How much is fan count up? I'm just curious because I recall the Springs being so packed for Sportsmans on Saturday night that there was no wiggle room in the stands. The kids and I could have taken up 5 bleachers tonight and no one would have cared. The past two weeks I've been there, it seems the stands aren't very full at all. I'm not picking - just stating what I saw. Too bad we can't just get more people to come to the track - geez at 5$ a person to get it it's hellish good entertainment for the family.I for one thought tonight was just awesome. Not much follow the leader and very competitive. Well, that's all I have to add. lol Not much on the engine part - I just work on the body of the car. lol. And yeah it nvr will be the Springs, but ...Shrugs (Memphis): Without disappointment you cannot appreciate victory. (Det. Roland Castlebeck): Did Eleanor tell you that?

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Keeping the Grove as the home track????

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